DN #30: Boring Industry Gold, AI Blueprint Readers & The Lead-Selling Trap (w/ Vinh Luu)

Vinh:usually to do that they have an assistant, a good assistant take about three days for one blueprint to build out all those reports. I'm using AI and it's only only 30 seconds.

Niklas:Hi and a huge welcome to you, my lovely listener. So glad you're here. Today you're joining me for a chat with Wyn. Wynne is a solo founder building H D parking lot. Wynne, so nice to have you.

Vinh:Thank you, Nicholas and thank you for having me.

Niklas:You're building something I I I like these industries that are a bit off like the main tracks I would say because they're usually very good business ideas. Please walk me through what sparked the idea for H D parking lot in the first place.

Vinh:It's part of idea when I was starting about two years ago. I was doing the side hustle which junk removal. it's very calm. Junk removal is very common side hustle in the US. So basically just clean up people junk. That you know, that's it. just make a good you know, good money, quick and easy money. So and I was working so that gave me a chance to expose me to the construction industry, which is the homeowners, the builders and the trade people, different various trades. So when I was at a job site, clean up mostly construction junks, right? And then I talked to contractors, builders, and and trade people and homeowners. So I learned about what they what you know what their struggles what they've been through, just chat. And then and also that's how I learned okay there's so many problems of finding managing the whole construction projects between homeowner and and and builder and also as a way for a homeowner's is difficult to find a trustworthy local builders or contractors to help them with their home development projects. And on the contractor side, once they get the construction projects going on, they they they struggle to manage in the projects. And most of the time they have two or three projects going on and that there are many things they have to deal with in in each of the construction projects, the labors, the material and then the customer. And so s most of the contractors when they start out, they cannot afford to pay you know these existing SAS application for project management. So they they they ne they never want want to pay for they don't have a budget. So they end up doing the very traditional email texting, you know, paper, pen and paper. So I say, you know, I I just wanna see an opportunity and just wanna build something out, mainly and say, hey, I will provide and help small time contractor out and and use these tools to manageing and connecting with the homeowners easily.

Niklas:Yeah, I think this is really interesting. In in one of my last roles, I was involved in building an innovation hub in a port company actually. And this port company they we looked a lot at what I would call forgotten industries. So industries that are not like on the on the main track, that are a bit off the beaten path, that are are I would say a bit too dirty for a lot of people to touch. And that's what I really like about your project as well. It's not like it's not the l the the most I would say sexy thing in the current age of AI. But

Vinh:Correct.

Niklas:it is something that solves a really large problem. And it's really construction is a trillion trillion dollar industry for people who haven't really looked at it. It's hu it's a huge market. And It's still living like I would still say a a few at least a few years back in time. It's not like that far. So so I really like this this general idea. If you walk me through the problems that you typically encounter, like what what is it that that you that you saw that was really worth solving first? And how did you go about it?

Vinh:So one of the existing problems that that I discovered right now as we talk, especially in the US, we have a a a you probably heard know about Yelp, right? Yelp the place where you look up a place to eat, right? And there's also there's already a directory or marketplace to discover contractors or builders already. And namely Angie or Angie Liszt and ThumbTech. These are directory places you can homeowners can go and look for them. But the problem with that is that it is not reliable. Meaning I'll give you an example. Let's say you need to go need to do a bathroom remodel at your place, right? You go to Angie on Tom Tech on any of the marketplace. You type in and say, it's asking you what do you need to get done. So you type in, I need to kick new bathroom remodel. And then you expecting after you type in what you need to get done, you expect to get a list back up of list of good contractors, right? you won't. What happened is you get they're asking you more questions, your contact information, where where's your job at? So basically everything about you and afterward, you expect to get a list of that. But you you won't. They actually they say thank you, we get your information when you need to get done now. We're gonna send your information to good service contract providers and which they which they will, but in about thirty minutes you get a bunch of calls. So basically these marketplace currently taking the homeowner information, the problem, and they sell that leave to about twenties of these contractors. And in these contractors call you up, right? And and then you have then you you You have to be interviewed, you have to talk 20 times to these contractors and then repeat yourself 20 times, explain what you need to get done. So, and then after all said and done, you're gonna end up pick one, right? And then you're expecting that person, then okay, you get the contract, and then you work offline, and then the NG or the marketplace won't help you, just connect you, and then they get out of it. Now, after you hire a contract, that's not the end of the story yet. That's when the major head is it's a sizeable investment. It usually costs ten thousand or more, right? And it's a big money for most of the homeowners. So the marketplace after they hook you up with a contractor, they get out of it. They don't provide any tools to make sure that the project gets delivered on cam and then managing the you know all the payments. So that would have so it left the homeowner in the blank and the contractor just choose whatever method they choose to manage the project and usually get delayed. So that is a problem I try to solve in is I want to build a place where I just connect. If you go in here, you just pull up HD parking lot, type in what you need, the the local area and it it it it sends you it's not asking you just type in sec what you need, you immediately you hit search. And then you get a list of contractors and civility guilt. And we just present the information right there. And it it gives you the profile and then let you select and make your own decision. And after you find the person that you need to talk to, right, then you connect with it. Then it also I p I view additional applications that help you manage in the project, that controlling the whole process. So we not let you in the dark after you initiate the construction project with the contractors and then imagine the whole full life cycle. So that is the whole end goal of of of HD Parking lot.

Niklas:Super interesting. And I I know about these problems myself. So I I know we're talking about problems that are that are very real and I think very common. Looking at it maybe even one step back and before, how did you get into building software yourself? And what's your journey before you started building HD parking?

Vinh:Yes, so my prior background three years ago I I I my background is software engineer, over twenty years. and I I I work mostly from home. So I work I joined startup and my background diverse. but lately in the past ten years or so I I code mainly dot net and I work at home and then pretty good. career as a software engineer and then two years ago a a live event happened. My mom passed away and from there I was at at the same time my mom just passed away I end up, you know, get depressed and get get issue with the you know at what at my workplace due to my performance, right? do sort things. So and then I ended up get getting fired or lay off. And so I say hey I now I I get depressed. I just say hold on to it. I just wanna take some time off. and and and explore do something else. So and I end up stumble into junk removal. How do I stumble junk removal? Because my mom left me a her home. I inherit a home. But the home is messy. It's unpermitted it's very messy. And and then and the CD government came down and said hey I need to clean up the house and it was messed and I I call in a junk removal services. come and give me a quote. The cheapest one I got is twenty five thousand dollars just to clean up the house. I say, whoa. I said I just I don't want to spend twenty five thousand I end up rent a truck and cleaned up myself. So I spent a month cleaning up. Then that's how I discovered. I because I pay, you know, to clean up and pay to dumping all the junk, right? I figure out what that actually costs. So I figure, well based on the guy that that gave me twenty five thousand, I I figure all the expense the actual I pay, he he would have make fifteen thousand in about a week worth of work. I said this great. I say, okay, I'll just go ahead and try to do a chunk we offer chunk removal for for for local community. And that's how I discovered this whole like you say, construction industry is like I never thought about getting doing any technology work in the construction world until I get into it. So I basically stumble into it and and and it open up this whole world on on how big and massive the cap the the the the size of the industry, just like you said, is over a trillion dollar. And I from there I I I I get my research that that's how I discovered it's a huge market. That nobody most of the tech people never bother looking to it's because not sexy. It's very boring cat you know, industry. So so that's how I that that's my background.

Niklas:And that's usually I mean that's it's also interesting with the junk remover, right? Because this is also something people don't want to do. So you can actually charge more than for the jobs that people like doing. It's like it's it's that simple

Vinh:Correct, correct.

Niklas:sometimes. And I I also think the same is true in software. Like if you have to do like this boring a very smart person I once talked to is it's so much easier to make money in these boring businesses that people don't want to do. Like it's it's a

Vinh:Correct.

Niklas:lot easier. It's a lot easier most of the time. It's it's really something I learned before. And I also like we all obviously look for the flashy and shiny stuff, but the usually the the easier money is where people don't really look. Like so probably also true now with AI, right? So if you're not like th there's probably a lot of room outside of this like this these places that are currently very heavily funded. Where like down the road the likelihood of making a lot of money are a lot higher. And there's also a very high likelihood that the next really big company will not be one of these f currently flashy AI startups. But the real winner of this year might be something very different that we don't see yet. So this is usually if we look at it, it's usually true. It's not the very trendy companies That were the big winners down the road. Like if you look at funding, yes.

Vinh:Mm. Y you're you're exactly right. Good things a good good good point. That's what I observe. Like you said, like most people include me, my former past, right? When it comes to technology, when a new technology comes out, we always try to chase the signy things, right? And so in the case of AI right now, so most people like they they apply very common industry. They apply okay, build an AI that go on to to to analyze Reddit, right? or analyze X and Automase and and all those things n but nobody look at the the boring industry like construction. So if y if you follow my my my my my X post, you see I'm currently building a AI application to read the the house architecture blueprint. And that's a great demand. It's it's a challenging one, but there's actually basically there's nobody only a handful of companies out there or or individuals that actually apply AI to construction. So so that that that that opened the the biggest opportunity out there. So when now so I apply this and I show I did MO the these blueprint reader app show to the the contractor, the builders, they they totally they're they're mind blown. Just see but if I show to other technology it's very common. It's just read it, analyze, yeah. But it just you see the homeowner able to see that you can able to read it in about thirty seconds. I I have another another app which I already I already released on HD parking lot website, which is a I call it the visualizer. Basically you can actually you or your your audience can actually go to my website and actually use it right now and it saw a very common case, World W So the most common place is you need to paint your room, right? and or you need to decore your room, whatever style you want. Painting. I'm just taking you wanna repaint the room, right? And whatever problem is you go to your local hardware store, right? and then get this sample color and go go to the wall and then kinda put it up and figure out which color to choose, right? You kinda debate and until you paint it, you won't find out if the color kinda match c gonna turn out to be the look that you want, right? And So I I so instead of that, you go to use my visualizer, you go and just snap a photo from your phone and then just point and click and choose a custom color, any color spectrum you want. And then in about 30 seconds, it go to Google Gemini and it generates you exact no bleeding perfect. It looks like has been done. So that is so the visualizer is painting is one of the one of the use cases. can use for it but you can also change the flooring I mean change and or you can do apply a style you say give me a tropical look a coastal look a model look and apply everything for you and I'm currently I'm I I I offer this app for free. Yes it's cost me money but I just think it's cool it's helpful that's why I built it

Niklas:It's really interesting what you've built already. Walk us through other core features. Like what what else have you built and what are you also planning to build over the next maybe twelve to twenty four months?

Vinh:okay. So the whole goal of this is I HD Bar can help I want to help people d not only the discover the people but actually provide managing the whole life cycle of the projects. And also and also create a communities where homeowner and contractor can share ideas, meaning that for example let's say the person that DIY a project, right? They have questions. Well you can go on YouTube and Google. search but it's all the answers spread across multiple places. So I I I build in that I form a community. So basically the core features right here the code I already built out and the people can actually go and use them is first of all to go in and we have a contacts which is basically a contact directory to find all the service providers from the guy that do the tiling to the roofing to the do the architecture so direct app and then another place we have a projects marketplace. So meaning that you can go on a homeowner can go there and post a project similar to Upwork. you know, let's say you you need to remodel your living room. The traditional current method right now is you have to go in and and and look up people and then call them and explain your your projects to multiple people and then interview them and just repeat yourself. I say so you can go to HD parking lot, post a project, describe, upload all the photos on there, provide as much information, and then from there the system gonna notify all the relevant service providers to come and bid on your project so that all the to do they don't have to call you, they just go to the pro your project page and see the specs and the description, what need to be done, and then they can submit a bid. on HD parking lot and then use a homeowner can view the bid and and and negotiate to the to to the platform and and then once you decide to pick someone that you can close you can secure the project and get into and establish a new project and then managing the whole payment process. So that's project management right there oppose a project and get get the project management afterward. And then the second place is we add that already built out is which is the core is the marketplace marketplace meaning that once let's say back to the the sample use case homeowner want to do the living room remodel you post project now the project gets going the second thing is you need to buy materials you find a person that can build your remodel your kitchen but you need to find you need to source out the materials where the best place so you can go on HD parking lot go to the market marketplace and search for the materials you need. Or better yet, when you post a project, they say that you post you type in the project type kitchen remodel. It knows the keyword, it knows what you try to do. So it will present to you all the vendors that provide the supplies and the material that are relevant to your project type. automatically and I I I use I integrate AI that's why I integrate AI and suggest where you can buy and it gives you the pricing and and then it's up to your call. So that's the marketplace features. And then the the the fourth feature is that we have a calculators section meaning construction calculators. Basically so back to your homeowner the the living room right for example one of the things that the the living room you need to do the flooring. You decide, okay, I'm gonna do a marble tile on the floor, right? You know the dimension of the room. But you need to figure out okay, you need to buy marbles, but exactly how many pieces of marbles or tiles you need, right? So well, you can get a pen and paper and then do the manual calculation. Well, you don't have to do that. You go to HD Parking lot and say, hey, do me the the tile flooring calculator. You just enter your dimension and then it figure out exactly how many pieces of materials you need to purchase and save you time. And that's the calculator section. And we then we come to a talk, which is a basic forum. So the talk is basically. A part of any home remodeling projects, big or small, the first stage is go is research before researching the the finding the person, but actually you could you're gonna research and say, hey, research means the legal aspect. Let's say you in anywhere in the world, there are local laws and regulations you need to follow, especially you you you're gonna build a you add a new room or you're gonna tear down build a custom home, right? You need to find out laws and regulations. Well right now you can go on Google and YouTube and do a search for it and then compile that information yourself. Well on HD parking lot you go to talks. you do right there's already compiled that library of data inform for you. And if if if the data is not available, you ha you can post a tri your question on there and then the community of service provider or other homeowner have been through the situation can respond to your question. So basically that's what I I would encourage it. So that's a talk. And and that is mainly the core tools right there. So basically research, discover the people, buy the materials, right, and then learn. So that is the main thing that I want that comment. So that help you go through project construction and remodels. and what's next right now is I I'm currently building one other tool that supports this whole process which is the blueprint readers. And after that I'll be it's a more complicated one because most of the time people do remodel. especially kitchen remodel or building a new unit, they have to work with reprint. And what happened, you send it to contractors, contractors spend a lot of time reading that that proving to figure out exactly the the amount of materials, the labor and the schedule is very time consuming. To read that blueprint. And so now wouldn't the new tools I'm about to release it by the in the next couple of weeks. You just upload blueprint within 30 seconds, it will tell you all the materials required to get that bill to exit and then the the number of labor hours and who the the the type of labors you need and how long. and the schedule and also laws and regulations that apply to that particular bill. Within 30 seconds I talked and then more quickly to the contractor. Contractor mentioned to me, usually to do that they have an assistant, a good assistant take about three days the earliest for one blueprint to to to to build out all those reports. So and I it I'm using AI and it's only only 30 seconds. So that's why I'm building go ahead.

Niklas:No, I think this is this is really interesting and it's one of these use cases where where also like modern LLMs they can add a lot of value because they are just so good at at interpreting pictures. I I didn't really want to to interrupt you now that I'm already talking what what I find really interesting also about what you're doing is that you're building In public so so much. What was this decision about? I think you started it in twenty twenty five that you really started to talk openly about what you're doing. maybe walk us through this decision.

Vinh:yes, so I well first of all I was inspired. I forgot his name, I cannot pronounce his name, I'm sorry. L Lowe or something, the guy that yeah, yes, exactly.

Niklas:Mark Lou probably. One yeah.

Vinh:Sorry. So yes, I I watched him, I got influenced by him and one of the posts and on his YouTube video he mentioned I his story, how he his life changed when he decided to post participate on X Bu in P public. And he encouraged that's what I get the idea and I wanna follow his footstep. So that's why I decided I decided to to to to record. And I kinda like it. It actually his suggestions great because keep me accountable and I think it's much more fun than than than building in silence. That that's the whole thing. Now I'm got hooked to it. So it's it's fun to to document the whole process.

Niklas:Yeah, I think it it has changed it a little bit now because software has bec has become a lot easier to build. I think this build in public movement, it was stronger like two years ago when I looked looked at it more. but I I agree and I think there's also this one point that people often get wrong. The idea is not it's just such a small part of what you're doing. So it's a lot better to post what you're doing, to talk about it and get feedback earlier and realize your mistake early or get positive feedback but work on like get a second opinion on what you're actually doing in in certain senses and that's what build in public does a lot. If you build in silence and there's just this very large chance that you are actually building something nobody wants. And then then you end up with a product after two

Vinh:Okay.

Niklas:years that nobody wants and you wasted two years of your life. And this is the worst outcome. It's a lot better if 10 people copy what you're doing, but at least you build something where there is a market and you can get a part of this market. It's a it's a lot better than building something nobody wants. Like and a lot of people make this mistake. So I I agree and I've always liked this movement and also this movement of like indie hackers, solo founders, like I think the people that are building the future, you are they all start small, right? And then there are a few who d deliberately decide to stay solo like Marlou or like Peter Levitt's which are kind of the biggest ones. And then there are people who who try to build really large companies. But but this can start the same way. Like like It's just I think beyond a certain point, we I'm still waiting for the one billion solo founder. Maybe, maybe you become it. There are a few others. I had Ben Serra on the podcast who's building Polsiar, so he has tremendous gross numbers and maybe shot at at really making it very big. but but outside of that, you will still need other people to do things. And that's also when I look at at least a question I would have is a lot of Builders struggle with sales and marketing. How do you do that?

Vinh:how do it yeah, marketing I I have no problem actually. I'm comfortable with with marketing and probably because of my background window I'm I'm a tech guy, but my when I used to work for companies in the past, so I used to work for a a online internet marketing company that also provide SEO service. So so I got so I gotta know how the online because I I work for that agency for a long time, over like five years. And I also work with a few other startups failed and then a couple successful but not like big successful anything. so I get a chance to learn how these startup market themselves. So but internal marketing s so to answer the question, it's not a problem for me and part of exposed building public is I think is believe me, it's just it's just an affordable way for me to get exposure. that that's one of the reasons why I decide to do post in public and and and and and and to get to get more exposure. And beside that, my main customer, even though I post on their well on the online community is mainly basically I just want to open as as you can see I'm very open. My goal of this one is I don't just build one product and make a a few thousand AR a month MR whatever. My whole goal is I just want to it's a four-year commitment from from my end. I my end goal is I want to build a company. I just don't want to build a product. Yes I could go go build next cool AI and then catch on the trend and make good amount of money but that's not my end goal. I I go on X I suppose I expose to this promote a company an open company so I have this this thing I want to try it out. I I believe that I can build a company with other people, with line minded individual from on anywhere in the world. They see my idea, they can work participate. That's spread across. the globe. That's what my my my end goal. There's more like recruiting, if if you know if you will, different aspects from technical to marketing. So and that how and to and and seem to be working for me. So now I just recently I just met new people from local and also from abroad. that help can help me out with internal that willing to work as as as equity team members, that to provide marketing service or to products development, product design. And also locally here the same thing. So they fit in di different role and also of course technical as well. So to answer the question, marketing comes quite natural for me and my main method is just opposed publicly.

Niklas:Really interesting. And I would also agree that I mean I've worked in like big companies. I've also started companies. I've been in consulting. So I've seen like a number of different things through my time. And I can also say that companies and also roles change. So as you said in the beginning it's about making something people want, then it's a selling becomes a big part. And then hiring becomes a big part and building a team and getting people to work with you actually. Like if you if you raise a lot of money, the latter one will become more important a lot earlier, like finding really great people who want to work with you is is a big challenge then. But that you but but that's kind of the evolution of of of things. And I think these all these parts are really interesting. And it's it I think it's also very interesting that you you're already experiencing it and also going through all these these phases I think that that you see on on the company track. If you if you look Around so you're you're not planning to stay a solo founder, right? So you are building you want to build a team and make it a big company at the end of the day.

Vinh:Yes. my that's that's my my my my my end goal is build a a a a global company a big of course very very ambitious and my things I I want to be and I wanna break from the traditional where Go get an idea, yeah, a company and go raise fund and hire employees. I I don't like that because I get laid off. So I basically I wanna build a company where I I where I love to work.

Niklas:If you had one biggest advice for builders wanting to ship AI powered tools in traditional industries, what would you tell them? What's the most important thing?

Vinh:the most important thing is I think is don't do I'm not just go get hand on. Just don't do paper research. Just if you what are you thinking right now, I know you can use AI and and and and and build tools. Just go talk to your local features. If if you're in a construction or any industry that that you plan to build that tools, go talk to validate with an actual customer, talk to them, find out a struggle to to just validate that. I that I'm a firm believer in talk to the real person and better yet, participate in the process one time. Then you learn so much more. See most people just do the interview. Yeah, you it so most people can can do the the interview and everything and they they learn and everything you ask the customer. Not until that you actually go live a day in life of that process. Then it answers so much questions and open up so many things that you can see. So just participate hand on to participate in the process once. it'll answer everything before you s so don't do paper research, do hand on research.

Niklas:Yeah, I can I think that's the most most important advice to any founder. Talk to your potential customers or to the people that you think have the problem. And only if they really have the problem, build it. If you cannot validate the problem, please don't build it. Like like and don't trust some AI that tells you something. I can one hundred percent agree. Go to the people that have will have to pay for your software that you are building. Like and really understand them and also understand if they are willing to buy it. I think this is really important advice. outside of that, I think you are you're really into sports. We we had the chance to chat like a few minutes in advance and you're really a kitesurfer. What what does kitesurfing do for you? Also if you s take a look at the business side of things, what's what's the great thing about kitesurfing?

Vinh:cut surfing basically helped me focus. Focus on the task at hand. It's it's it's required. So the the the reason I love sport is that because the of the nature of the sport, right? You cannot stand on the water and get riding on the water. If you even you stress out, whatever stress that you have, the moment you get on the water. your mind cannot think of any stress or any trouble or anything at all. Because the moment you think about any of that, you're not gonna get you're gonna you're gonna sink. You're gonna get off. You cannot ride with with your head thinking of of other things. Right? So and so and that is basically keep my mind clear. So whenever I code I I I I I get time of course wind allow I go wide on it. I just put everything just be with nature and it forced me to a part of the sport is and look for the few use your senses, meaning not thinking too much, thinking of the task at hand and then sense the environment, sense nature. Because the wind you cannot see and you need to rely on the wind, the direction of the wind to to to control the kite. So you cannot see it. You can only feel it. So you gotta use your sense and where the wind and but also at the same time you need to look at the waves, right? Like just like the picture you post, right? You got big waves, right? You you get so you get to use all your senses and st Stay focused and then watch where you're going. So that's applied to business. So actually it's applied to my business. So most of the time we get so many things come to our, right? And we not really stay focused at all. And we we worry so many things. And not looking and not sensing, not using our senses. That's why I like surfing. Help me focus.

Niklas:Yeah, and also I mean there are very practical reasons like kite you can't you can't really change the wind. So if there's no wind you can kite surf. It's this translates a lot like if there's no opportunity, the market is not right. You you need like

Vinh:Yeah.

Niklas:you have to deal with the the surrounding conditions and have to make the best of it. You can't change it. Like if the wind picks up and you have a too big of a kite, I mean you you've gotta deal with it somehow. And it's the same in a business environment. Yeah. You can't you can change these things.

Vinh:Exactly. Just like Yeah. And so most is successful. Yeah, just it's just the adaptability, right? That's what most is successful to say. You gotta be adaptable, change, right? So that exactly what Kai service every day is not the same. You don't know what's going on there. You go out there, the wind can change any moment. the waves can change direction any moment. So you gotta be adaptability, adapt to the condition. But you gotta use your senses and and then and figure out and anticipate that apply to life in anything, either your business or work or whatever. It it just help you better react and and adaptability. That's that's focus and adaptability.

Niklas:Yeah, and as final words, I think when we grow up we often stop playing. And kitesurfing, this is one of these things. It's just playing, like l as if we are children. There's no use in it. Like it's just fun. We just play in the waves and with the wind and these kind of things. And it's really that's really at least for me, that's a lot of fun. Wint, thank you so much for being on the podcast. It's been a pleasure. And to you, my lovely listener, I'll see you next time.

Vinh:Thank you so much for inviting me. and you have a good one.